Curse

LifeInfusion · Jan 29, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Need to add Cracked Armor to skills like Restore Conditions

Eviscerate : If Eviscerate hits, you strike for +1...25 damage and inflict a Deep Wound, lowering your target's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17 seconds.

Dismember: If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a Deep Wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17 seconds.

Crushing Blow: If it hits, this axe blow will inflict a Deep Wound on the target foe, lowering that foe's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17 seconds.

Gash: If this attack hits a Bleeding foe, you strike for 5...17 more damage and that foe suffers a Deep Wound, lowering that foe's maximum Health by 20% for 5...17 seconds.

Hamstring: If this attack hits, your target is Crippled for 3...13 seconds, slowing his movement.

Sever Artery: If this attack hits, the opponent begins Bleeding for 5...21 seconds, losing Health over time.

Mend Ailment: Remove one Condition (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, Cracked Armor, or Deep Wound) from target ally. For each remaining Condition, that ally is healed for 5...57...70 Health.

Mend Condition: Remove one Condition (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, or Deep Wound) from target other ally. If a Condition is removed, that ally is healed for 5...57...70 Health.

Purge conditions: Remove all Conditions (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, and Deep Wound) from target ally.

Restore Conditions: Remove all Conditions (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, Cracked Armor, and Deep Wound) from target other ally. For each Condition removed, that ally is healed for 10...58...70 Health.

need to remove the fluff like listing all the conditions if you ask me...

they should probably have roleplay/flavor text descriptions in that line of thought...but it is too much work.

a good read: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mc1

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jan 29, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Never effected me I use my bars and if something is wrong check wiki.
So it is not high on my priority list.

Biostem · Jan 29, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

My only gripe is when skills use double negatives:

"target foes loses -4 health per second" - you can't lose a negative, as you would actually gain a positive. It should be "target foe loses 4 health per second" and just leave it at that.

Along the same lines are skills that say "target foe suffers -4 health degeneration per second" - its the same as above - "degeneration" means a loss or lowering, so no need the -4.

DarkNecrid · Jan 29, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biostem

My only gripe is when skills use double negatives:

"target foes loses -4 health per second" - you can't lose a negative, as you would actually gain a positive. It should be "target foe loses 4 health per second" and just leave it at that.

Along the same lines are skills that say "target foe suffers -4 health degeneration per second" - its the same as above - "degeneration" means a loss or lowering, so no need the -4.

Actually, it should be "target foe loses 8 Health per second" in your first example.

A11Eur0 · Jan 29, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

...

......

You know what the skills mean right? The added flavor like "Is struck with Searing Flames" is to keep with the roleplay. Otherwise it would be dry..."Cause burning on target foe for 7 seconds. If target foe is already burning, cause X...XX damage to target foe. All your base are belong to us." So very dry, I like the way some skill descriptions are worded. "Send out a lightning javelin that strikes target foe...." rather than "deal X damage to target foe, this effect counts as a projectile".

DarkNecrid · Jan 29, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

...

......

You know what the skills mean right? The added flavor like "Is struck with Searing Flames" is to keep with the roleplay. Otherwise it would be dry..."Cause burning on target foe for 7 seconds. If target foe is already burning, cause X...XX damage to target foe. All your base are belong to us." So very dry, I like the way some skill descriptions are worded. "Send out a lightning javelin that strikes target foe...." rather than "deal X damage to target foe, this effect counts as a projectile".

Lemme know when people roleplay this and I throw a Lightning Javelin at someone and they go "you sent out your mighty lightning javelin and hit me in the face" in the midst of combat

not going to happen

A11Eur0 · Jan 29, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Ok so you'd rather have a cut and dry game with no flavor at all?

Why not just skip the storylines and just go straight to level 20, all skills and max attributes in everything, add in a God Mode code and get every title maxed after 10 minutes of trying.

Why don't we just cut out all the fluff? SF: "apply burning to target enemy. if burning, deal XX damage." Life Siphon: "Target enemy gets -X heath regen. Gain +X health regen." Ursan Blessing: "you win"

DarkNecrid · Jan 29, 2008, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Ok so you'd rather have a cut and dry game with no flavor at all?

Why not just skip the storylines and just go straight to level 20, all skills and max attributes in everything, add in a God Mode code and get every title maxed after 10 minutes of trying.

Yeah, because all of that related to concise skill descriptions right?

ITT: A11Eur0 wants this:
Fire Storm
You call upon the almighty god, Balthazar, to reign down streams of molten flame upon foes at targeted locale. For 10 Earth seconds, foes adjacent to the targeted locale take 2+3...(30x5)-131 Flaming damage each passing Earth second, causing severe burns and flesh to be slowly burned off of their bodies.

A11Eur0 · Jan 29, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Yeah, because all of that related to concise skill descriptions right?

ITT: A11Eur0 wants this:
Fire Storm
You call upon the almighty god, Balthazar, to reign down streams of molten flame upon foes at targeted locale. For 10 Earth seconds, foes adjacent to the targeted locale take 2+3...(30x5)-131 Flaming damage each passing Earth second, causing severe burns and flesh to be slowly burned off of their bodies.

Not to that degree...no. But cutting it down to bare minimum would make this game boring. What if all of Rurik's speeches were just "We gotta get out of here. Let's go over those mountains. Maybe the Krytans will help us. Let's go!" White mantle: "those Shining Blade are kidnappers. Go kill them." Shining blade: "The white mantle are the killers. Go kill them." Vizier Khilbron: "Get me the scepter and I'll help you win." Glint: "Kill the mursaat and you'll win, gogo"

Do you even read the skill descriptions more than once? Please...if this bugs you that much, you need to go out and re-discover that thing called the Sun. This is a Game. Not a fantasy world simulator. It's got flavor. Leave that flavor alone.

DarkNecrid · Jan 29, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Not to that degree...no. But cutting it down to bare minimum would make this game boring. What if all of Rurik's speeches were just "We gotta get out of here. Let's go over those mountains. Maybe the Krytans will help us. Let's go!" White mantle: "those Shining Blade are kidnappers. Go kill them." Shining blade: "The white mantle are the killers. Go kill them." Vizier Khilbron: "Get me the scepter and I'll help you win." Glint: "Kill the mursaat and you'll win, gogo"

CUTSCENES AND STORY DO NOT RELATE TO SKILL DESCRIPTIONS AT ALL, STOP BEING DUMB.

Seriously.

A11Eur0 · Jan 29, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

CUTSCENES AND STORY DO NOT RELATE TO SKILL DESCRIPTIONS AT ALL, STOP BEING DUMB.

Seriously.

I'VE TOUCHED ON SKILL DESCRIPTIONS AND AM TAKING THE DISCUSSION FURTHER. It's called using a parallel in a debate. It's called making my point and illustrating it further. Stop being ignorant.

DarkNecrid · Jan 29, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

I'VE TOUCHED ON SKILL DESCRIPTIONS AND AM TAKING THE DISCUSSION FURTHER. It's called using a parallel in a debate. It's called making my point and illustrating it further. Stop being ignorant.

This topic is about rewording skill descriptions.

Lady Raenef · Jan 29, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

I agree. Reword please, it'd be helpful. Fluff, destroy it!

arcanemacabre · Jan 29, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

I would have loved two different descriptions: one more narrative, the other more precise like we have now. Maybe an option to toggle either, too. Too late now, though, it would simply take too long to come up with 1200+ new skill descriptions to fit them in, but it's something to hope for in GW2.

lutz · Jan 29, 2008, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Not to that degree...no. But cutting it down to bare minimum would make this game boring. What if all of Rurik's speeches were just "We gotta get out of here. Let's go over those mountains. Maybe the Krytans will help us. Let's go!" White mantle: "those Shining Blade are kidnappers. Go kill them." Shining blade: "The white mantle are the killers. Go kill them." Vizier Khilbron: "Get me the scepter and I'll help you win." Glint: "Kill the mursaat and you'll win, gogo"

Do you even read the skill descriptions more than once? Please...if this bugs you that much, you need to go out and re-discover that thing called the Sun. This is a Game. Not a fantasy world simulator. It's got flavor. Leave that flavor alone.

You fail at the game, and then some.

In Magic, flavor is given through different methods, but not through the actual skill description text. That is where Magic is serious. Every word must be precise as to what the skill does. Guild Wars needs to learn that caliber, too. Every single thing needs to be precise.

Searing Flames - the flavor and RPG-type quality of it is in the art, the name of the skill, the skill tree name, the method of acquisition - but NOT the text. The text is serious, because who the HELL cares about what the text says? When you want to read the text you want to know what it does, not some 200-word long explanation full of redundancies.

That being said, nobody really cares. You know what the skills do, so bother arguing?

DarkNecrid · Jan 29, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

You fail at the game, and then some.

In Magic, flavor is given through different methods, but not through the actual skill description text. That is where Magic is serious. Every word must be precise as to what the skill does. Guild Wars needs to learn that caliber, too. Every single thing needs to be precise.

Searing Flames - the flavor and RPG-type quality of it is in the art, the name of the skill, the skill tree name, the method of acquisition - but NOT the text. The text is serious, because who the HELL cares about what the text says? When you want to read the text you want to know what it does, not some 200-word long explanation full of redundancies.

That being said, nobody really cares. You know what the skills do, so bother arguing?

Yes, this exactly.

Sleeper Service · Jan 29, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

(...)
In Magic, flavor is given through different methods, but not through the actual skill description text. That is where Magic is serious. Every word must be precise as to what the skill does. Guild Wars needs to learn that caliber, too. Every single thing needs to be precise.
(...)

not just every word, every comma, colon and period changes the way a skill will work.

every creature, spell type, land artifact EVERYTHING in MTG is worded and named following a precise convention. It saves a LOT of hassle and debate.

there is everything to be gained using precise wording, flavor text can be added for impact no problem (in the skill descriptions) heck the toons already shout some of it out when they use the skill.

Muspellsheimr · Jan 29, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Not to that degree...no. But cutting it down to bare minimum would make this game boring. What if all of Rurik's speeches were just "We gotta get out of here. Let's go over those mountains. Maybe the Krytans will help us. Let's go!" White mantle: "those Shining Blade are kidnappers. Go kill them." Shining blade: "The white mantle are the killers. Go kill them." Vizier Khilbron: "Get me the scepter and I'll help you win." Glint: "Kill the mursaat and you'll win, gogo"

Do you even read the skill descriptions more than once? Please...if this bugs you that much, you need to go out and re-discover that thing called the Sun. This is a Game. Not a fantasy world simulator. It's got flavor. Leave that flavor alone.

Fail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

In Magic, flavor is given through different methods, but not through the actual skill description text. That is where Magic is serious.
Every word must be precise as to what the skill does. Guild Wars needs to learn that caliber, too. Every single thing needs to be precise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

not just every word, every comma, colon and period changes the way a skill will work.

Exactly. Flavor is currently placed in the skills with the icon art, & the skill name. If more flavor is needed, it can be added after the mechanical description of the skill - a small piece of lore/history/origin, saying/quote, ect. that has relevance to the skill.

Example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Life Siphon: "Target enemy gets -X heath regen. Gain +X health regen."

Using a period between the two means they are seperate effects - removing the hex would not stop the regeneration for the caster - hence why it is currently worded with a comma, meaning they are part of the same effect, and rightly so.

For those of you who don't understand, I will give a brief example from M:tG

"Target creature takes X damage, and you gain X life."
If the target creature is made an illegal target before the spell resolves (think spellbreaker to interrupt someone's spell), the damage and life gain are canceled, as they are part of the same effect.
vs.
"Target creature takes X damage. You gain X life."
If the target creature is made an illegal target before the spell resolves, the damage is canceled, but the life gain still resolves, as it is a separate effect of the same spell.

DarkNecrid · Jan 29, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muspellsheimr

Fail.

Exactly. Flavor is currently placed in the skills with the icon art, & the skill name. If more flavor is needed, it can be added after the mechanical description of the skill - a small piece of lore/history/origin, saying/quote, ect. that has relevance to the skill.

Example:

Using a period between the two means they are seperate effects - removing the hex would not stop the regeneration for the caster - hence why it is currently worded with a comma, meaning they are part of the same effect, and rightly so.

For those of you who don't understand, I will give a brief example from M:tG

"Target creature takes X damage, and you gain X life."
If the target creature is made an illegal target before the spell resolves (think spellbreaker to interrupt someone's spell), the damage and life gain are canceled, as they are part of the same effect.
vs.
"Target creature takes X damage. You gain X life."
If the target creature is made an illegal target before the spell resolves, the damage is canceled, but the life gain still resolves, as it is a separate effect of the same spell.

Very very true, and this is why some skills need reworded...they don't follow standard conventions.

Like Judge's Insight/AoB/Lightbringer's Gaze not ignoring armor even though all other Holy sources do. Why?

DDL · Jan 29, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Ultimately though, virtually all of these effects can be 100% confirmed by simply testing them.

Once, usually.

Unlike M:TG (where two players may otherwise have a tendency to argue ad infinitum about the precise interpretation of a given card), there is zero ambiguity here. The skill works AS IT IS CODED, no arguments given. It's essentially irrelevant what the skill description is. It's nice if it's helpful, sure, but there really is no desperate need to make everything 100% crystal clear.

I mean, if you're in doubt as to whether the regen and degen are linked in Life siphon or life transfer, you can go out and test it. If you regularly use the spell, you're unlikely to need to regularly reconfirm how it works. Of course, the fact that they're called "siphon" and "transfer" pretty much implies reciprocity anyway

So yeah: it's nice to have the descriptions as slightly more than "bare bones", since it's really not essential to "resolving skill behaviour" to have a 100% unabiguous skill description: the skill does as it's coded, and if you haven't worked out exactly how that works before using the skill at a critical moment, you're a bit stupid, really.